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12VDC Lighting Questions Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram

Question:

I am trying to get a PV system setup for my camp, and have a few questions about the setup.Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram  I live in Atlantic Canada, and I’m having trouble finding good 12V lighting products, so now I am considering using an inverter with 120V fixtures. The question is, which setup would drain less power from my battery — 60W/12V incandescent lights connected directly to the battery, or 13W/120V compact fluorescent lights connected through an inverter?  I also want to connect a 15W Solar Panel from ICP Global Technologies Inc. to serve as the trickle charge, since the camp is only used on the weekends.  Also, I’m only planning on using 4 or 5 lights, and maybe a radio. Those are my options at this point.  Any ideas, tips, or other options are certainly appreciated.  Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram

Response:

Obviously, the flourescent is a more efficient light, using less than 25% of what the incandescent uses for about the same amount of light. As far as inverter efficiency, I usually figure 80%, assuming a load of 50-100% of inverter rating. Most of the cheap inverters draw fairly large idle currents, so the efficiency sucks at no (or low) load. You also need to figure that the ballast may use aditional power, and it could overheat on a square wave inverter. I haven’t had that problem, however. At any rate, I’d expect a 13w flourescent to draw 2amps or less compared to about 5amps with the 60w/12vdc bulb.Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram I use a mix of flourescent and incandescent light bulbs in both my RV and at a cabin. The best incandescents are the automobile type 1156’s (normally used for backup lights). They are rated 15w (12v, compared to 750hrs. for 120vac light bulbs.        Obviously, they do not put out anywhere near as much light as a 60w bulb, I just find it to be enough in most cases. When it is not, then I prefer the 13w compact flourescents on 120vac. One of the advantages of the 1156’s is that all kinds of auto (also RV and marine) housings are made for them and they are readily available and cheap. 1141’s (?) will  also fit these fixtures if even lower power usage and light output are needed. I don’t like 12v flourescents – they cost 10 times as much and last 1/10th as long. In other words, the fixtures don’t last as long as the flourescent bulbs.        I’ve been using a 15w PV panel as a trickle charger for 2 Trojan T-105’s. It’s plenty for the few days a month we average at the cabin. Obviously the 2-4 ah per day (it doesn’t get sun all day for the trees) charging it can provide is not enough to recharge from a heavy discharge, but it makes a good trickle charger.  We find the batteries fully charged and not using up the water, provided that we don’t run them down too much at any given time.        Lighting (incandescent), water pumps, and fans work well on 12vdc. Any other appliance is likely to be much better in several ways at 120vac. I mainly decide which to use based on convenience, price, and power usage. Note that the inverter (especially modified sinewave) may cause interference on TV or radio. That problem is easily rectified by using filters, sheilding, or simply locating the inverter away from the radio or it’s antenna.         I really like having both AC and DC power available. We started with 12vdc and added the 120vac inverter later. However, we planned on both at the time we built the cabin. Most of the rooms have both 12vdc & 120vac lights (switched seperately, either can be used) and 120vac outlets. HTH                                                          Russ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am trying to get a PV system setup for my camp, and have a few questions about the setup.  I live in Atlantic Canada, and I’m having trouble finding good 12V lighting products, so now I am considering using an inverter with 120V fixtures. The question is, which setup would drain less power from my battery — 60W/12V incandescent lights connected directly to the battery, or 13W/120V compact fluorescent lights connected through an inverter?  I also want to connect a 15W Solar Panel from ICP Global Technologies Inc. to serve as the trickle charge, since the camp is only used on the weekends.  Also, I’m only planning on using 4 or 5 lights, and maybe a radio. Those are my options at this point.  Any ideas, tips, or other options are certainly appreciated.Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram

Before you buy.

Response:

Obviously the 13W power usage is less than the 60W lamps.  Even with 5-8% inverter losses.  There are however lots of compact fluorescent DC lights that can be powered directly from a battery.  The equivelent is a 13W lamp in DC too. One source is: http://www.jademountain.com/lightingProducts/dcltsCFs.html There are also White LED lights available now. They are expensive but use extremely low amounts of electricity.Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram  The Light Emitting Diodes can provide for low amounts of light for long periods of time.  The LED flashlights run scores of times longer than regular flashlights. see: http://www.hollysolar.com I suggest for a small part time cabin to use a small portable modified sinewave inverter if you need to run a small AC item (like elecrtic shaver). You can get these all over the place and cheap. Good Luck Russ

Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram I am trying to get a PV system setup for my camp, and have a few questions about the setup.  I live in Atlantic Canada, and I’m having trouble finding good 12V lighting products, so now I am considering using an inverter with 120V fixtures. The question is, which setup would drain less power from my battery — 60W/12V incandescent lights connected directly to the battery, or 13W/120V compact fluorescent lights connected through an inverter?  I also want to connect a 15W Solar Panel from ICP Global Technologies Inc. to serve as the trickle charge, since the camp is only used on the weekends.  Also, I’m only planning on using 4 or 5 lights, and maybe a radio. Those are my options at this point.  Any ideas, tips, or other options are certainly appreciated. Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram

Response:

Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram I am trying to get a PV system setup for my camp, and have a few questions about the setup.  I live in Atlantic Canada, and I’m having trouble finding good 12V lighting products, so now I am considering using an inverter with 120V fixtures. The question is, which setup would drain less power from my battery — 60W/12V incandescent lights connected directly to the battery, or 13W/120V compact fluorescent lights connected through an inverter?  I also want to connect a 15W Solar Panel from ICP Global Technologies Inc. to serve as the trickle charge, since the camp is only used on the weekends.  Also, I’m only planning on using 4 or 5 lights, and maybe a radio. Those are my options at this point.  Any ideas, tips, or other options are certainly appreciated.  Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram

Good info by Greg and Russ. I’ve checked a couple of my modified sine/square wave inverters, both 300 watt, and get about 0.3 to 0.4 amps draw at idle. Call it 4-5 watts. So add a 13 watt c.f. at 85% efficiency at 12.5 volts and call it 1.6 amps draw. This gives (close to) 60 watts worth of incandescent light at 1/3 the drain on the battery. The light is much better than the cheap 12v fluorescents I’ve seen.Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram  Just remember to set up a switch that kills the inverter too when you want the light(s) out. I’ve used the inverter with a fluorescent trouble light when camping a few times. The cool-white light quality isn’t so good, but the convenience is great and it makes a good area light. BTW, my 1100 watt Exeltech sine wave inverter draws only 1.2 amps at idle. That means it still draws less juice from the battery with 3 13 watt c.f.’s than 1 60 watt incandescent at 12 volt!Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram

Response:

In am in the field of fishing and hunting camps or cabins since many years and noticed that the best results with 12 vols is accomplished by using 6 o7 halogen lamps (draw 20 watts) that you can find at Reno depot for 15$ can. If you use as much as possible 12 volts equipment that you can find easily in marinas or in the motor homes suppliers. They have fans, TV, lights. If you use fluorescents your face will look blue like frankeinstein. So with 12 volts halogen without using the transformer that takes the 120 Ac to 12 Ac you will be OK. Also do not forget that you are not in Florida (sunshine state) In the maritime you have plenty of wind and you should use a small wind generator.Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram  15 watts PV just makes a trickle charge in heavy sun and is not worth their use. We sold over 1000 units in Quebec to hunters and fisherman that go to their camps once in a while like you and they kept their PV for summer days in july where there is no wind. It happends during only 15 days where the sunset is late. With 2 or 3 good deep cycle batteries and a good wind generator you will have more than enough energy for your needs. Do not spend your money….. just make an investment for good equipment. You will even be able to recharge the batteries of your trolling motor while you will sleep.Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram

Response:

Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram  I’ll have to try a bit of both (12V and inverter) and decide which application works better.  I suppose, I could always add additional batteries & charge panels if needed.  Thanks again. Greg.

Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram In am in the field of fishing and hunting camps or cabins since many years and noticed that the best results with 12 vols is accomplished by using 6 o7 halogen lamps (draw 20 watts) that you can find at Reno depot for 15$ can. If you use as much as possible 12 volts equipment that you can find easily in marinas or in the motor homes suppliers. They have fans, TV, lights. If you use fluorescents your face will look blue like frankeinstein. So with 12 volts halogen without using the transformer that takes the 120 Ac to 12 Ac you will be OK. Also do not forget that you are not in Florida (sunshine state) In the maritime you have plenty of wind and you should use a small wind generator. 15 watts PV just makes a trickle charge in heavy sun and is not worth their use. We sold over 1000 units in Quebec to hunters and fisherman that go to their camps once in a while like you and they kept their PV for summer days in july where there is no wind. It happends during only 15 days where the sunset is late. With 2 or 3 good deep cycle batteries and a good wind generator you will have more than enough energy for your needs. Do not spend your money….. just make an investment for good equipment. You will even be able to recharge the batteries of your trolling motor while you will sleep. Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram  Thanks for all the excellent advice.  I’ll have to try a bit of both (12V and inverter) and decide which application works better.  I suppose, I could always add additional batteries & charge panels if needed.  Thanks again. Greg. In am in the field of fishing and hunting camps or cabins since many years and noticed that the best results with 12 vols is accomplished by using 6 or7 halogen lamps (draw 20 watts) that you can find at Reno depot for 15$ can. If you use as much as possible 12 volts equipment that you can find easily in marinas or in the motor homes suppliers. They have fans, TV, lights. If you use fluorescents your face will look blue like frankeinstein. So with 12 volts halogen without using the transformer that takes the 120 Ac to 12 Ac you will be OK. Also do not forget that you are not in Florida (sunshine state) In the maritime you have plenty of wind and you should use a small wind generator. 15 watts PV just makes a trickle charge in heavy sun and is not worth their use. We sold over 1000 units in Quebec to hunters and fisherman that go to their camps once in a while like you and they kept their PV for summer days in july where there is no wind. It happends during only 15 days where the sunset is late. With 2 or 3 good deep cycle batteries and a good wind generator you will have more than enough energy for your needs. Do not spend your money….. just make an investment for good equipment. You will even be able to recharge the batteries of your trolling motor while you will sleep.

If you study the mid-1976 Mother Earth News for an article on the MINTO WHEEL as devised by Wallace Louis Minto, and then put into the public domain , you will learn of a device you can run year round. Call it a low-gradient Geothermal Energy Convertor. I inventied one independently, and then found out he had beaten me to it by several years. Get an Aqua-Thaw heat pipe and copy it in large size, and use it to move ground heat from 100 feet down if you can get that deep, and make a Minto Wheel to use that heat in winter, and solar heat in summer (clouds don’t matter very much for this) , and it will use exactly ZERO fuel once set up and running.  Kinda like a water wheel in reverse. Every adult middle class North American has seen the proof of this, in the “Drinking Bird” toy that one may buy in any large city and most small ones. A study of the automotive alternator and how to convert it to use for running appliances etc, will also be a benefit. And yes, by all means, a windmill. The amateur radio magazines periodically (no pun intended) print an article on how to make a windmill from an alternator. If you have any questions, feel free to E-mail me. Unlike many, I do ot ruin my rely address. I prefer to report spammers, and that costs them much more than just rejection by a phoney address. Have fun. “The learned Fool writes his nonsense in better language, but ’tis still nonsense.” B.Franklin ‘Poor Richard Improved’ (1754) Lou H. Semi-Learned, and very foolish, Prolific inventor, now on VP prop and cheap jet for GA Lousy Salesman, Incompetent businessman. (Typical of the Breed) Looking for both around Tulsa OK, USA (need working partner)

Response:

YOU try to get useable power out of a minto wheel, Lou. Please, try it, then come back and advise people on it’s efficiency. — Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy NewsletterSolar Panel Inverter wiring diagram  I could always add additional batteries & charge panels if needed.  Thanks again. Greg. In am in the field of fishing and hunting camps or cabins since many years and noticed that the best results with 12 vols is accomplished by using 6 or7 halogen lamps (draw 20 watts) that you can find at Reno depot for 15$ can. If you use as much as possible 12 volts equipment that you can find easily in marinas or in the motor homes suppliers. They have fans, TV, lights. If you use fluorescents your face will look blue like frankeinstein. So with 12 volts halogen without using the transformer that takes the 120 Ac to 12 Ac you will be OK. Also do not forget that you are not in Florida (sunshine state) In the maritime you have plenty of wind and you should use a small wind generator. 15 watts PV just makes a trickle charge in heavy sun and is not worth their use. We sold over 1000 units in Quebec to hunters and fisherman that go to their camps once in a while like you and they kept their PV for summer days in july where there is no wind. It happends during only 15 days where the sunset is late. With 2 or 3 good deep cycle batteries and a good wind generator you will have more than enough energy for your needs. Do not spend your money….. just make an investment for good equipment. You will even be able to recharge the batteries of your trolling motor while you will sleep. If you study the mid-1976 Mother Earth News for an article on the MINTO WHEEL as devised by Wallace Louis Minto, and then put into the public domain , you will learn of a device you can run year round. Call it a low-gradient Geothermal Energy Convertor. I inventied one independently, and then found out he had beaten me to it by several years. Get an Aqua-Thaw heat pipe and copy it in large size, and use it to move ground heat from 100 feet down if you can get that deep, and make a Minto Wheel to use that heat in winter, and solar heat in summer (clouds don’t matter very much for this) , and it will use exactly ZERO fuel once set up and running.  Kinda like a water wheel in reverse. Every adult middle class North American has seen the proof of this, in the “Drinking Bird” toy that one may buy in any large city and most small ones. A study of the automotive alternator and how to convert it to use for running appliances etc, will also be a benefit. And yes, by all means, a windmill. The amateur radio magazines periodically (no pun intended) print an article on how to make a windmill from an alternator. If you have any questions, feel free to E-mail me. Unlike many, I do ot ruin my rely address. I prefer to report spammers, and that costs them much more than just rejection by a phoney address. Have fun. “The learned Fool writes his nonsense in better language, but ’tis still nonsense.” B.Franklin ‘Poor Richard Improved’ (1754) Lou H. Semi-Learned, and very foolish, Prolific inventor, now on VP prop and cheap jet for GA Lousy Salesman, Incompetent businessman. (Typical of the Breed) Looking for both around Tulsa OK, USA (need working partner)

Response:

YOU try to get useable power out of a minto wheel, Lou. Please, try it, then come back and advise people on it’s efficiency.

Did you read until you saw a word you recognized? Then stop?  I SAID I had done it. I built a tiny one and got enuff numbers off it to make a big one.  I didn’t make the big one but I did do the math. i could have made (at that time, 1975 or so) a 1000 HP wheel using four abandoned shallow oil wells (4000′) near the west border of Kansas. The cost would have been, turnkey for a small town that I did the design for , about 125,000 bucks. I couldn’t even get an appointment to tell them about it. Naysayers again.  The world is infested with y….them. Efficiency?  Same efficiency as Hoover Dam.   Measure the ouput and the maintenance costs.  THERE IS NO FUEL INPUT. It can be enhanced many ways but the basal process is 2-phase weight-shift, and can be done with as little as a 20′ dia wheel driving a car alternator putting our about 3500 W. Hole needs would be dependent on area of operation. Every 5 years IIRC, you will need to dismantle and repack the bearings.  Unless you use sooper-dooper sealed ones. Have you ever made one?  Did you ever get any numbers? Do you even know what a GOI book is?  Ashrae book? Or do you just figger if there ain’t a book of tables in your shelf, then it cain’t be done? Sheesh. “The learned Fool writes his nonsense in better language, but ’tis still nonsense.” B.Franklin ‘Poor Richard Improved’ (1754) Lou H. Semi-Learned, and very foolish, Prolific inventor, now on VP prop and cheap jet for GA Lousy Salesman, Incompetent businessman. (Typical of the Breed) Looking for both around Tulsa OK, USA (need working partner)

Response:

Hey Lou, I built a an automobile that only needs water poured in the gas tank to run from LA to NYC. now, does my saying it make it so? not at all. you can claim that you can get useful power from a minto wheel, and I’m supposed to believe you? show the math son, show the math.Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram  YOU try to get useable power out of a minto wheel, Lou. Please, try it, then come back and advise people on it’s efficiency. Did you read until you saw a word you recognized? Then stop?  I SAID I had done it. I built a tiny one and got enuff numbers off it to make a big one.  I didn’t make the big one but I did do the math. i could have made (at that time, 1975 or so) a 1000 HP wheel using four abandoned shallow oil wells (4000′) near the west border of Kansas. The cost would have been, turnkey for a small town that I did the design for , about 125,000 bucks. I couldn’t even get an appointment to tell them about it. Naysayers again.  The world is infested with y….them. Efficiency?  Same efficiency as Hoover Dam.   Measure the ouput and the maintenance costs.  THERE IS NO FUEL INPUT. It can be enhanced many ways but the basal process is 2-phase weight-shift, and can be done with as little as a 20′ dia wheel driving a car alternator putting our about 3500 W. Hole needs would be dependent on area of operation. Every 5 years IIRC, you will need to dismantle and repack the bearings.  Unless you use sooper-dooper sealed ones. Have you ever made one?  Did you ever get any numbers? Do you even know what a GOI book is?  Ashrae book? Or do you just figger if there ain’t a book of tables in your shelf, then it cain’t be done? Sheesh. “The learned Fool writes his nonsense in better language, but ’tis still nonsense.” B.Franklin ‘Poor Richard Improved’ (1754) Lou H.Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram  Semi-Learned, and very foolish, Prolific inventor, now on VP prop and cheap jet for GA Lousy Salesman, Incompetent businessman. (Typical of the Breed) Looking for both around Tulsa OK, USA (need working partner)

Response:

Steve Spence Hey Lou, I built a an automobile that only needs water poured in the gas tank to run from LA to NYC.

I’m supposed to believe you? show the math son, show the math. and show your car. Why YOU are NOT a multi billionaire ?. H.G.

Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram I built a an automobile that only needs water poured in the gas tank to run from LA to NYC. now, does my saying it make it so? not at all. you can claim that you can get useful power from a minto wheel, and I’m supposed to believe you? show the math son, show the math.Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram. Did you read until you saw a word you recognized? Then stop?  I SAID I had done it. I built a tiny one and got enuff numbers off it to make a big one.  I didn’t make the big one but I did do the math. i could have made (at that time, 1975 or so) a 1000 HP wheel using four abandoned shallow oil wells (4000′) near the west border of Kansas. The cost would have been, turnkey for a small town that I did the design for , about 125,000 bucks. I couldn’t even get an appointment to tell them about it. Naysayers again.  The world is infested with y….them. Efficiency?  Same efficiency as Hoover Dam.   Measure the ouput and the maintenance costs.  THERE IS NO FUEL INPUT. It can be enhanced many ways but the basal process is 2-phase weight-shift, and can be done with as little as a 20′ dia wheel driving a car alternator putting our about 3500 W. Hole needs would be dependent on area of operation. Every 5 years IIRC, you will need to dismantle and repack the bearings.  Unless you use sooper-dooper sealed ones. Have you ever made one?  Did you ever get any numbers? Do you even know what a GOI book is?  Ashrae book? Or do you just figger if there ain’t a book of tables in your shelf, then it cain’t be done? Sheesh. “The learned Fool writes his nonsense in better language, but ’tis still nonsense.” B.Franklin ‘Poor Richard Improved’ (1754) Lou H. Semi-Learned, and very foolish, Prolific inventor, now on VP prop and cheap jet for GA Lousy Salesman, Incompetent businessman. (Typical of the Breed) Looking for both around Tulsa OK, USA (need working partner)

Response:

Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram I built a an automobile that only needs water poured in the gas tank to run from LA to NYC. now, does my saying it make it so? not at all. you can claim that you can get useful power from a minto wheel, and I’m supposed to believe you? show the math son, show the math.

You have made such a good imression on me that I will gladly give you the information if and AFTER you fork over a pile of loot. As for the math, you can do it if you know any. 1)      Ground phonon thermal conductivity 2)      R-22 heat pipe transfer rates. 3)      Wheel size, torque/weight, rotational speed. They say a word to the wise is sufficxient and I feel I have wasted enuff words on a fool. If’n y’all gots enuff money, I will e=mail you’ns a picture or the wheel I had, or what was left after the storm. Sh** Sheesh again. “The learned Fool writes his nonsense in better language, but ’tis still nonsense.Solar Panel Inverter wiring diagram , not DC vs AC – low voltage bulbs produce more candle-power per watt. This is due to the heavier (comparably) filament being able to run hotter without structural failure (read that as burn-out) than the relatively light, high resistance filaments of a high voltage bulb. If you need a good 12 volt lighting system go to Home Depot (or your local equivalent) and buy the low voltage halogen lighting kits produced for accent lighting etc – you don’t need the chintzy, noizy solid state “transformers” – just the fixtures. I use them in my camping trailer .

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