Question:

I am corrently attempting to make a solar water heater panel build a collector having been told that it is cheaper to by a new one (AUS$460). My main problem here in Australia is finding copper sheet to make the collector absorber panel. I was quotes AUS$400+ for 1mm copper sheet 900mm x 1800mm from the only supplier I could find. Second hand seems a complete dead loss as copper sheet doesn’t seem to be widely used for anything in Australia. I have finally decided on copper tube (8 metres for AUS$35.00) and Zinc flashing 150mm wide (AUS$45 for 6metre roll) the rest of the frame etc I will be using timber I have to hand and I will have to buy glass.  This should make a collector of about 1.5 sq metres.

Response:

I wouldn’t use an old car radiator or make a solar water heater panel and old air conditioner coil and expect to have potable water.  The glycol residue from a car or the oils and any freon residues in air conditioner coils are toxic.   Does anyone know where to get an inline thermostat to use in this sort of application.  I want one that opens at 140-160 degrees that will preferably go directly in line with 1/2 inch pipe, and that use ordinary pipe threads. I know that these are made, but I haven’t been able to locate a source.   Russ Yes, I would also like to know if there is a “cheap” method, such as using recycled materials, ie old car radiators, etc Could somebody tell me  , how can i make a domestic solar water heater , but sheep if it is possible . Whith sheeper materials . Thanxs again

Response:

Yes, I would also like to make a solar water heater panel know if there is a “cheap” method, such as using recycled materials, ie old car radiators, etc -

Response:

Could somebody tell me  , how can i make a domestic solar water heater , but sheep if it is possible . Whith sheeper materials . Thanxs again

Response:

I am not familiar with high effeation, make a solar water heater panel so maybe what I am saying is inappropriate… What you describe sounds like a forced draft heater.  Normally they are used because natural draft (the type you see at Home Depot) will not work for some reason.  You must replace it with another forced draft or correct the problem. It is certainly a bad choice if you want hot water during a power outage, and I have heard that even a momentary loss of power will simply shut it off until you reset it.

Response:

I had to replace the same type of make a solar water heater panel water heater and found that you can get it at Sears, Home Depot and Lowes… but you have to order it and wait a week for the unit to be delivered to the store.  When you need a water heater, who can wait a week? I went to a local plumbing supply house and picked one up with no hastles.

Question:

Hmmm—  interesting, but flatbox trickle heater might be more effecient, However, I don’t think it wise, at least in my climate, to heat it during the winter.  I just use a home made heater to keep a hole in the ice, and a small airstone and air pump to keep the oxygen level up.  The Koi do just fine, even when the pond is frozen 6″ deep (except for the heated hole,) and with a couple or more feet of snow on top.  You can also use a water trough heater sold at your local farmers co-op.  If you want to know how I made the heater, mail me and I’ll describe it. glass solar water heater panel

I should have mentioned I live in Sacramento, CA. I think the fish would like spending the “winter” in water above 55 degrees. Especially the smaller ones.glass solar water heater panel

Response:

Hmmm—  interesting, but flatbox trickle heater might be more effecient, However, I don’t think it wise, at least in my climate, to heat it during the winter.glass solar water heater panel  I just use a home made heater to keep a hole in the ice, and a small airstone and air pump to keep the oxygen level up.  The Koi do just fine, even when the pond is frozen 6″ deep (except for the heated hole,) and with a couple or more feet of snow on top.  You can also use a water trough heater sold at your local farmers co-op.  If you want to know how I made the heater, mail me and I’ll describe it. glass solar water heater panel

Response:

I was thinking of constructing a solar water heater to keep my 1400 gallon koi pond a little warmer over the winter.glass solar water heater panel  I’m considering using 1-200 feet of 1/2 inch black plastic tubing (the kind used for drip watering systems), and mounting it on a large piece of plywood, so that it could be placed at the proper angle to the sun. Anybody tried this? Suggestions? Comments? Warnings?glass solar water heater panel

Response:

I was thinking of constructing a solar water heater to keep my 1400 gallon koi pond a little warmer over the winter. I’m considering using 1-200 feet of 1/2 inch black plastic tubing (the kind used for drip watering systems), and mounting it on a large piece of plywood, so that it could be placed at the proper angle to the sun.glass solar water heater panel  Anybody tried this? Suggestions? Comments? Warnings? glass solar water heater panel

It works quite well,glass solar water heater panel  we’ve been doing this for a number of years now by just coiling the whole thing on a south facing roof. It takes a little bit of horse power to get it started with a head of 15 feet, but once the water starts to return the suction created balances it out and a small pump is all that is needed. Of course if your at pond level there is no problem, but it looks pretty ugly.glass solar water heater panel

Response:

I was thinking of constructing a solar water heater to keep my 1400 gallon koi pond a little warmer over the winter. I’m considering using 1-200 feet of 1/2 inch black plastic tubing (the kind used for drip watering systems), and mounting it on a large piece of plywood, so that it could be placed at the proper angle to the sun.glass solar water heater panel  Anybody tried this? Suggestions? Comments? Warnings?glass solar water heater panel

Well, it does not sound like a very good idea to me.glass solar water heater panel I am not sure if you can raise the temperature with such a system. The pond will leak a lot of warmth to the surrounding soil and air. If you want a stable but higher temp. you will have problems with changes in light (sun) radiation over different days. The fish will happily overwinter in a cold pond, even occasional ice cover usually is not a problem.glass solar water heater panel The fish won’t eat and in their “hibernation” are not very active, well there is no food available anyway, so that is OK. If you start warming the water you need to be very carefull. First of all the temp. might start to fluctuate rather drastically which is not good, the fish might wake up and become active and all of a sudden the temp. drops again.   Moreover, the water from your solar panel will be rather warm which means that it can contain very little oxygen. this might give huge problems for the fish. They might die from suffocation. Last remark: the growth of algae will be stimulated more that the growth of aquatic plants (the algae will grow in low light but high temp. conditions, the plants won’t). In other words you might end up with a large green pond, which is also not what you want.glass solar water heater panel

There seems to always be a debate about heating Koi ponds during winter and I think this is fine if you have the finance and equipment to keep a few thousand gallons of water above 55deg. But if you are going to play about with a form of solar pre-heat system and no themostat I would have thought  that you will only succeed in stressing the Koi out. As temperature fluctuation seems to weaken them some what. If its cold its cold and they behave in a set way if the temperature goes up and down then their systems can become confused and stressed. Hence the reason for Koi ponds having greater depth than those just used to keep goldfish etc. As beside the obvious need in large fish for a higher gallonage the volume of water acts as a buffer against temperature change. Best Regards Jez

Response:

Hello Maarten!  MvH Well, it does not sound like a very good idea to me.glass solar water heater panel  I am not  MvH sure if you can raise the temperature with such a system. The  MvH pond will leak a lot of warmth to the surrounding soil and air.  MvH If you want a stable but higher temp. you will have problems with  MvH changes in light (sun) radiation over different days. Most of us that have solar ponds use off-the-shelf technology used in solar swimming pools. The same problems with the heat leaking in ponds has been addressed in swimming pools. When I was building my pond I though about heat leaking out into the soil.  But after looking over solar designed swimming pools I found that most of the heat is wicked away from the surface of the pond by air, and very little by the soil.  So, installing insulationion material between the soil and pond liner will not buy you anything.  The size of the collectors and other factors make up for the air heat loss.glass solar water heater panel  Off the shelf automatic swimming pool controllers adjust the temperature of the pond (pool) to give one a precise temperature.  You can even cycle the temperature between day and night if you like, and control the rise time.  MvH First of all the temp. might start  MvH to fluctuate rather drastically which is not good, Unlike solar hot water systems for indoor water, solar swimming pool systems start off with very low temperatures, and very gardually warm up.  MvH Moreover, the water from your solar panel will be rather  MvH warm which means that it can contain very little oxygen. Actually, solar swimming pool collector design dictates a very *cold* running system.  For example if the temperature rise between the pond water and the output of the solar collectors is more than 10 degrees, something is very wrong.  This is just the opposite of what one might think (well, me anyway). I did some design work on what is called “Solar Domestic hot water systems”, or, hot water for your house.  The move to swimming pool solar was much different.  I learned a lot.  MvH However, I would be very interested in the results of your  MvH experiment, so keep us informed (it’s always nice if someone else  MvH takes the risk). You have brought up many good points to keep in mind.  I am comming from the background of building a waterlily pond and I don’t have the fish background you have.  Thanks for the input, and I look forward to more of your good information.glass solar water heater panel

Response:

Does anyone have info about using a solar heater (a used domestic collector?) to heat a koi pond. Given the large size of a koi pond I would think a solar collector would work well. My major problem is how to drain the collector at night to avoid freezing. One could use an antifreeze but I worry about having a leak into the pond. To completely drain the collector would also be some what difficult. Any ideas out there?glass solar water heater panel

Response:

If you live in the norther part of the country, 43re parallel or highter you would sure need lots of panel to do much good.  The rate of heat loss from a pond is really terrific so I think the only thing you would do is cause really big temperature swings on the sunshiny days.  Now if you are going to put the ponds inside a structure to keep the evaporative losses down it might work. vern Does anyone have info about using a solar heater (a used domestic collector?) to heat a koi pond. Given the large size of a koi pond I would think a solar collector would work well.glass solar water heater panel  My major problem is how to drain the collector at night to avoid freezing. One could use an antifreeze but I worry about having a leak into the pond. To completely drain the collector would also be some what difficult. Any ideas out there?glass solar water heater panel

Response:

Hmmm—  interesting, but flatbox trickle heater might be more effecient, However, I don’t think it wise, at least in my climate, to heat it during the winter.  I just use a home made heater to keep a hole in the ice, and a small airstone and air pump to keep the oxygen level up.  The Koi do just fine, even when the pond is frozen 6″ deep (except for the heated hole,) and with a couple or more feet of snow on top.  You can also use a water trough heater sold at your local farmers co-op.  If you want to know how I made the heater, mail me and I’ll describe it.   glass solar water heater panel

I should have mentioned I live in Sacramento, CA. I think the fish would like spending the “winter” in water above 55 degrees. Especially the smaller ones.glass solar water heater panel

Response:

glass solar water heater panel  but flatbox trickle heater might be more effecient, However, I don’t think it wise, at least in my climate, to heat it during the winter.  I just use a home made heater to keep a hole in the ice, and a small airstone and air pump to keep the oxygen level up.  The Koi do just fine, even when the pond is frozen 6″ deep (except for the heated hole,) and with a couple or more feet of snow on top.  You can also use a water trough heater sold at your local farmers co-op.  If you want to know how I made the heater, mail me and I’ll describe it.  glass solar water heater panel

Response:

I was thinking of constructing a solar water heater to keep my 1400 gallon koi pond a little warmer over the winter. I’m considering using 1-200 feet of 1/2 inch black plastic tubing (the kind used for drip watering systems), and mounting it on a large piece of plywood,glass solar water heater panel  so that it could be placed at the proper angle to the sun. Anybody tried this? Suggestions? Comments?glass solar water heater panel

Response:

I was thinking of constructing a solar water heater to keep my 1400 gallon koi pond a little warmer over the winter. I’m considering using 1-200 feet of 1/2 inch black plastic tubing (the kind used for drip watering systems), and mounting it on a large piece of plywood,glass solar water heater panel  so that it could be placed at the proper angle to the sun. Anybody tried this? Suggestions? Comments? Warnings?glass solar water heater panel

It works quite well, we’ve been doing this for a number of years now by just coiling the whole thing on a south facing roof. It takes a little bit of horse power to get it started with a head of 15 feet, but once the water starts to return the suction created balances it out and a small pump is all that is needed. Of course if your at pond level there is no problem, but it looks pretty ugly. Kai

Response:

I was thinking of constructing a solar water heater to keep my 1400 gallon koi pond a little warmer over the winter. I’m considering using 1-200 feet of 1/2 inch black plastic tubing (the kind used for drip watering systems), and mounting it on a large piece of plywood, so that it could be placed at the proper angle to the sun.glass solar water heater panel  Anybody tried this? Suggestions? Comments? glass solar water heater panel

Well, it does not sound like a very good idea to me.glass solar water heater panel I am not sure if you can raise the temperature with such a system. The pond will leak a lot of warmth to the surrounding soil and air. If you want a stable but higher temp. you will have problems with changes in light (sun) radiation over different days. The fish will happily overwinter in a cold pond, even occasional ice cover usually is not a problem. The fish won’t eat and in their “hibernation” are not very active, well there is no food available anyway, so that is OK. If you start warming the water you need to be very carefull. First of all the temp. might start to fluctuate rather drastically which is not good, the fish might wake up and become active and all of a sudden the temp. drops again.   Moreover, the water from your solar panel will be rather warm which means that it can contain very little oxygen. this might give huge problems for the fish. They might die from suffocation. Last remark: the growth of algae will be stimulated more that the growth of aquatic plants (the algae will grow in low light but high temp. conditions, the plants won’t). In other words you might end up with a large green pond, which is also not what you want. glass solar water heater panel

Response:

There seems to always be a debate about heating Koi ponds during winter and I think this is fine if you have the finance and equipment to keep a few thousand gallons of water above 55deg. But if you are going to play about with a form of solar pre-heat system and no themostat I would have thought  that you will only succeed in stressing the Koi out. As temperature fluctuation seems to weaken them some what.glass solar water heater panel  If its cold its cold and they behave in a set way if the temperature goes up and down then their systems can become confused and stressed. Hence the reason for Koi ponds having greater depth than those just used to keep goldfish etc. As beside the obvious need in large fish for a higher gallonage the volume of water acts as a buffer against temperature change.glass solar water heater panel

Response:

glass solar water heater panel  MvH Well, it does not sound like a very good idea to me. I am not  MvH sure if you can raise the temperature with such a system. The  MvH pond will leak a lot of warmth to the surrounding soil and air.  MvH If you want a stable but higher temp. you will have problems with  MvH changes in light (sun) radiation over different days. Most of us that have solar ponds use off-the-shelf technology used in solar swimming pools. The same problems with the heat leaking in ponds has been addressed in swimming pools. When I was building my pond I though about heat leaking out into the soil.  But after looking over solar designed swimming pools I found that most of the heat is wicked away from the surface of the pond by air, and very little by the soil.  So, installing insulationion material between the soil and pond liner will not buy you anything.  The size of the collectors and other factors make up for the air heat loss. Off the shelf automatic swimming pool controllers adjust the temperature of the pond (pool) to give one a precise temperature.glass solar water heater panel  You can even cycle the temperature between day and night if you like, and control the rise time.  MvH First of all the temp. might start  MvH to fluctuate rather drastically which is not good, Unlike solar hot water systems for indoor water, solar swimming pool systems start off with very low temperatures, and very gardually warm up.  MvH Moreover, the water from your solar panel will be rather  MvH warm which means that it can contain very little oxygen. Actually, solar swimming pool collector design dictates a very *cold* running system.  For example if the temperature rise between the pond water and the output of the solar collectors is more than 10 degrees, something is very wrong.  This is just the opposite of what one might think (well, me anyway). I did some design work on what is called “Solar Domestic hot water systems”, or, hot water for your house.  The move to swimming pool solar was much different.  I learned a lot.  MvH However, I would be very interested in the results of your  MvH experiment, so keep us informed (it’s always nice if someone else  MvH takes the risk). You have brought up many good points to keep in mind.  I am comming from the background of building a waterlily pond and I don’t have the fish background you have.  Thanks for the input, and I look forward to more of your good information.glass solar water heater panel

Response:

Does anyone have info about using a solar heater (a used domestic collector?) to heat a koi pond. Given the large size of a koi pond I would think a solar collector would work well. My major problem is how to drain the collector at night to avoid freezing. One could use an antifreeze but I worry about having a leak into the pond. To completely drain the collector would also be some what difficult. Any ideas out there?glass solar water heater panel

Response:

If you live in the norther part of the country, 43re parallel or highter you would sure need lots of panel to do much good.  The rate of heat loss from a pond is really terrific so I think the only thing you would do is cause really big temperature swings on the sunshiny days.  Now if you are going to put the ponds inside a structure to keep the evaporative losses down it might work. vern Does anyone have info about using a solar heater (a used domestic collector?) to heat a koi pond.glass solar water heater panel  Given the large size of a koi pond I would think a solar collector would work well. My major problem is how to drain the collector at night to avoid freezing. One could use an antifreeze but I worry about having a leak into the pond. To completely drain the collector would also be some what difficult. Any ideas out there?glass solar water heater panel

Response:

Question:

solar panel invertersI am looking for something a little more efficient than a clothes line. Has anyone seen plans for some closed loop dryer that can cope with the RH you see in the sub tropics? How about a little greenhouse? Hang a piece of plastic over an EW line between two poles, then string another line below it. Leave the ends of the tent mostly open. How open? If they are completely closed, the water vapor never escapes. If they are completely open, the greenhouse adds nothing, compared to a clothesline.

Don Ocean and and PJM are also invited to answer this hvac science and engineering question. Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated. For the sake of definiteness, if Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it’s 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16′x16′ R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air should flow through the greenhouse?

Response:

Don Ocean and and PJM are also invited to answer this hvac science and engineering question.solar panel inverters Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated. For the sake of definiteness, if Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it’s 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16′x16′ R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air should flow through the greenhouse?

This is for you to answer Nick. Just what makes you think sci.engr.heat-vent-ac is interested or the appropriate place to discuss clothes drying? Your mother drop you on your head or are you so desparate for attention you have to post shit?

Response:

Don Ocean and and PJM are also invited to answer this hvac science and engineering question.solar panel inverters Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated. For the sake of definiteness, if Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it’s 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16′x16′ R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air should flow through the greenhouse? Just what makes you think sci.engr.heat-vent-ac is interested or the appropriate place to discuss clothes drying?

It’s a matter of basic HVAC science and engineering. Chapter 28 of the ASHRAE Applications handbook is all about drying, drying times, and so on. The SCI.ENGR.heat-vent-ac group should eagerly welcome such basic questions. What are your answers?

Response:

- Hide quoted text –solar panel inverters Show quoted text – Don Ocean and and PJM are also invited to answer this hvac science and engineering question. Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated. For the sake of definiteness, if Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it’s 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16′x16′ R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air should flow through the greenhouse?solar panel inverters Just what makes you think sci.engr.heat-vent-ac is interested or the appropriate place to discuss clothes drying? It’s a matter of basic HVAC science and engineering. Chapter 28 of the ASHRAE Applications handbook is all about drying, drying times, and so on. The SCI.ENGR.heat-vent-ac group should eagerly welcome such basic questions. What are your answers?

Funny. There isn’t a single mention of clothes or dryer in the 2000 version. And as far as I can tell. Except for venting of a clothes dryer, there is absolutely nothing on “drying, drying times, and so on” of clothes in ASHRAE books anywhere. Care to explain that?

Response:

Don Ocean and and PJM are also invited to answer this hvac science and engineering question. solar panel invertersPlease compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated. For the sake of definiteness, if Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it’s 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16′x16′ R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air should flow through the greenhouse? Nick

Get help , Nick.  Psychiatric help.  Maybe they can help you do something useful with what remains of your life. This is for you to answer Nick. Just what makes you think sci.engr.heat-vent-ac is interested or the appropriate place to discuss clothes drying? Your mother drop you on your head or are you so desparate for attention you have to post shit?

‘Some days, it’s just not worth chewing through the restraints.’ HVAC/R program for Palm PDA’s Free demo now available online

Response:

Don Ocean and and PJM are also invited to answer this hvac science and engineering question. Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated. solar panel invertersFor the sake of definiteness, if Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it’s 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16′x16′ R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air should flow through the greenhouse? Just what makes you think sci.engr.heat-vent-ac is interested or the appropriate place to discuss clothes drying?

Where ELSE would we discuss this question? :solar panel inverters It’s a matter of basic HVAC science and engineering. Chapter 28 of the ASHRAE Applications handbook is all about drying, drying times, and so on. The SCI.ENGR.heat-vent-ac group should eagerly welcome such basic questions. …There isn’t a single mention of clothes or dryer in the 2000 version. And as far as I can tell. Except for venting of a clothes dryer, there is absolutely nothing on “drying, drying times, and so on” of clothes in ASHRAE books anywhere.

My 1991 Applications book has drying hygrometry and drying time calcs on pages 28.1 and 28.2… Care to explain that?

Chapter 28 applies to all kinds of drying, as we can see from some of the references, eg  Bell, J. R., and P. Grosberg. 1962. The movement of vapor and moisture  during the falling rate period of drying of thick textile materials.  Journal of the Textile Institute, Transactions 53(5):T250; ABIPC 33: 72, and  Nissan, AH. 1968. Drying of sheet materials. Textile Research Journal 38:447. Now then, got any answers?

Response:

Just what makes you think sci.engr.heat-vent-ac is interested or the appropriate place to discuss clothes drying? Where ELSE would we discuss this question?

Alt.clothes, alt.clothing for starters. They probably already know what it takes. However as anal as you are you want to continue to reinvent the wheel. I suspect since you didn’t really understand it the first time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a matter of basic HVAC science and engineering. Chapter 28 of the ASHRAE Applications handbook is all about drying, drying times, and so on. The SCI.ENGR.heat-vent-ac group should eagerly welcome such basic questions. …There isn’t a single mention of clothes or dryer in the 2000 version. And as far as I can tell. Except for venting of a clothes dryer, there is absolutely nothing on “drying, drying times, and so on” of clothes in ASHRAE books anywhere. My 1991 Applications book has drying hygrometry and drying time calcs on pages 28.1 and 28.2… Care to explain that? Chapter 28 applies to all kinds of drying, as we can see from some of the references, eg  Bell, J. R., and P. Grosberg. 1962. The movement of vapor and moisture  during the falling rate period of drying of thick textile materials.  Journal of the Textile Institute, Tnsactionsra 53(5):T250; ABIPC 33: 72, and  Nissan, AH. 1968. Drying of sheet materials. . Now then, got any answers?

Clothes drying references? Where are they? Lying isn’t nice. I concede it is a liberal thing to do though. Try using references within the last ten years ok? Technology changes. We don’t discuss Sulphur Dioxide here much either.

Response:

Don Ocean and and PJM are also invited to answer this hvac science and engineering question. solar panel invertersPlease compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated. For the sake of definiteness, if Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it’s 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16′x16′ R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, solar panel invertershow many cfm of outdoor air should flow through the greenhouse?    Get help , Nick.  Psychiatric help…

Do I play gatekeeper in unmoderated newsgroups?

Response:

Where ELSE would we discuss this question?solar panel inverters Alt.clothes, alt.clothing for starters.

I disagree. What do they know of I. S. Bowen’s 1926 equation? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a matter of basic HVAC science and engineering. Chapter 28 of the ASHRAE Applications handbook is all about drying, drying times, and so on. The SCI.ENGR.heat-vent-ac group should eagerly welcome such basic questions. …There isn’t a single mention of clothes or dryer in the 2000 version. And as far as I can tell. Except for venting of a clothes dryer, there is absolutely nothing on “drying, drying times, and so on” of clothes in ASHRAE books anywhere. My 1991 Applications book has drying hygrometry and drying time calcs on pages 28.1 and 28.2… Care to explain that? Chapter 28 applies to all kinds of drying, as we can see from some of the references, eg Bell, J. R., and P. Grosberg. 1962. The movement of vapor and moisture during the falling rate period of drying of thick textile materials. Journal of the Textile Institute, Transactions 53(5):T250; ABIPC 33: 72 and Nissan, AH. 1968. Drying of sheet materials. Textile Research Journal 38:447. Clothes drying references? Where are they?

See above, at the end of Chapter 28. Perhaps it’s time to stop your silly gatekeeper games and answer the question, if you can. If not, your silence will suffice.solar panel inverters If Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it’s 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16′x16′ R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air need flow through the greenhouse? With no ventilation, the water vapor never escapes. Too much, and the greenhouse adds nothing, compared to a clothesline. Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Clothes drying references? Where are they?solar panel inverters See above, at the end of Chapter 28. Perhaps it’s time to stop your silly gatekeeper games and answer the question, if you can. If not, your silence will suffice. If Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it’s 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16′x16′ R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air need flow through the greenhouse? With no ventilation, the water vapor never escapes. Too much, and the greenhouse adds nothing, compared to a clothesline. solar panel inverters Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated.

You are posting to alt.solar.thermal and alt.home.repair Leave sci.engr.heat-vent-ac off your fucking clothesline bullshit. Maybe you need remedial math. The fact that you even post this shit anywhere shows you didn’t get enough mud playing time when you were a baby. You want to pout now you can’t get your way?

Response:

…Perhaps it’s time to stop your silly gatekeeper games and answer the question, if you can. solar panel invertersIf not, your silence will suffice. If Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it’s 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16′x16′ R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air need flow through the greenhouse? With no ventilation, the water vapor never escapes. Too much, and the greenhouse adds nothing, compared to a clothesline. Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated. You are posting to alt.solar.thermal and alt.home.repair Leave sci.engr.heat-vent-ac off your fucking clothesline bullshit.

No thanks. It’s entirely on-topic. What isn’t on-topic is personal attacks, laughable bullying wrongful attempts to control an ummoderated newsgroup, and amusing credential wars in which guys with wrenches in hand and grease on their faces attempt to construe real engineers as “unprofessional”

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – solar panel invertersDon Ocean and and PJM are also invited to answer this hvac science and engineering question. Please compare the drying rate to an outdoor clothesline and include the effects of condensation, if anticipated. For the sake of definiteness, if Greg wants to remove 12 pounds of water from 12 pounds of clothes with 400 ft^2 of surface (both sides) in minimal time in full sun in August in Key Largo, when it’s 84 F and w = 0.0185, using a 16′x16′ R1 greenhouse with 90% solar transmission, how many cfm of outdoor air should flow through the greenhouse? Get help , Nick.  Psychiatric help… Do I play gatekeeper in unmoderated newsgroups?

Well, you have criticised me for posting about waste-water heat-exchangers in alt.solar.thermal.  Is that what you mean by ‘gatekeeper’ in unmoderated newsgroups?  Or are you an official moderator of alt.solar.thermal?? daestrom

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Get help , N.  Psychiatric help… Do I play gatekeeper in unmoderated newsgroups? solar panel inverters Well, you have criticised me for posting about waste-water heat-exchangers in alt.solar.thermal.  Is that what you mean by ‘gatekeeper’ in unmoderated newsgroups?  Or are you an official moderator of alt.solar.thermal??

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Wellsolar panel inverters, you have criticised me for posting about waste-water heat-exchangers in alt.solar.thermal…

I don’t recall that. Sorry. Altho it’s not exactly on-topic here, ie not a “practical use of the sun’s heat.” It’s an interesting subject, but unless it’s a part of a solar water heater or a solar-heated house, it seems to me that there are more appropriate groups, eg MCFL or sci.engr.heat-vent-ac or alt.energy.renewable. BTW, PE Drew Gillett and PE Howdy Reichmuth and I will have an article on solar water heaters in the Nov/Dec issue of Solar Today, which will appear in Border’s and other fine bookstores on about October 15. Is that what you mean by ‘gatekeeper’ in unmoderated newsgroups?

No. The few bullys in sci.engr.heat-vent-ac are quite different. I’d like to see more science and engineering there. IMO, it’s a disgusting place at the moment. I don’t see a need for profanity, twisting the truth, personal insults  :, or threats. Or are you an official moderator of alt.solar.thermal??

No. I created alt.solar.thermal, but there is no moderator. I try to keep it on-topic, which isn’t easy at times. For instance, the turbine-blade position sensor discussion showed up in alt.solar panel inverterssolar.thermal for a long time. Yes, sun causes wind, but IMO, it’s a stretch to call that a practical use of the sun’s heat.

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Well, you have criticised me for posting about waste-water heat-exchangers in alt.solar.thermal… I don’t recall that. Sorry. Altho it’s not exactly on-topic here, ie not a “practical use of the sun’s heatsolar panel inverters.” It’s an interesting subject, but unless it’s a part of a solar water heater or a solar-heated house, it seems to me that there are more appropriate groups, eg MCFL or sci.engr.heat-vent-ac or alt.energy.renewable.

As I recall, it was a discussion of how to stretch a solar-heated domestic hot-water supply.  I was suggesting that using such a heat-exchanger would reduce the size requirements of a hot-water heating panel.  And you questioned whether it was ‘on-topic’ for alt.solar.thermal. Point is, what may seem off-topic to some isn’t always cut-and-dried.  And yes, you have tried to ‘gatekeep’, so… “Those that live in glass houses….” daestrom

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Can you remove home.repair from this disscussion? Thanks

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, solar panel invertersyou have criticised me for posting about waste-water heat-exchangers in alt.solar.thermal… I don’t recall that. Sorry. Altho it’s not exactly on-topic here, ie not a “practical use of the sun’s heat.” It’s an interesting subject, but unless it’s a part of a solar water heater or a solar-heated house, it seems to me that there are more appropriate groups, eg MCFL or sci.engr.heat-vent-ac or alt.energy.renewable. As I recall, it was a discussion of how to stretch a solar-heated domestic hot-water supply.  I was suggesting that using such a heat-exchanger would reduce the size requirements of a hot-water heating panel.  And you questioned whether it was ‘on-topic’ for alt.solar.thermal. Point is, what may seem off-topic to some isn’t always cut-and-dried.  And yes, you have tried to ‘gatekeep’, so… “Those that live in glass houses….” daestrom

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This thread is what happens when you ask the unclued for a simple direct answer. Instead of giving one, or saying they dont know, they will question and insult anything they can to avoid dealing with the question, you included, especially you in fact. Stage 2 is that the convo will move onto other matters in order to avoid the unpleasantness, but still no addressing the real question. It is a mistake to think you can get answers to basic questions: expertise is about depth, when theres no expertise, theres no depth to the knowledge. My answer to the original q is I dont know how to calculate it. Its also not something of great significance to me personally. I know I did ask you before for a pointer or 2 on thermal calculations, but never got any, so I hold you entirely responsible for my ignorance

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This thread is what happens when you ask the unclued for a simple direct answer.solar panel inverters Instead of giving one, or saying they dont know, they will question and insult anything they can to avoid dealing with the question, you included, especially you in fact.

I’ve noticed But that’s only part of the problem. Another is that sci.engr.heat-vent-ac was created only after a large usenet community voting process approved the group for distribution with its present 10-year-old charter. I suppose that cannot be changed without another vote, even though Paul, Don, solar panel invertersBill and others would like to change it and hijack the group into something different. I think of them as Nixonian CREEPs …It is a mistake to think you can get answers to basic questions: expertise is about depth, when theres no expertise, theres no depth to the knowledge.

Sci.engr.heat-vent-ac used to have lots of depth in the form of posters like Harriman, Banfleth, and other university scientists and PEs and people who’ve written chapters in ASHRAE tech handbooks. I like to think they are still out there and they may come back.   My answer to the original q is I dont know how to calculate it. Its also not something of great significance to me personally. I know I did ask you before for a pointer or 2 on thermal calculations, but never got any, so I hold you entirely responsible for my ignorance

Sorry, I don’t recall any unanswered questions. Ask again, if you like. I have a LOT in of time to help with questions like those  —– The following addresses had permanent fatal errors —– (reason: 550 Gateway: 550 relaying blocked, read new mail, add 216.65.64.230 to forwarding or enable smtp authentication y)

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This thread is what happens when you ask the unclued for a simple direct answer.solar panel inverters Instead of giving one, or saying they dont know, they

No, it’s when an asshole like Nick Pine starts in on another troll about his bullshit fantasies, spewing out his random number strings to ‘prove’ it. ‘Some days, it’s just not worth chewing through the restraints.’ HVAC/R program for Palm PDA’s Free demo now available online

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This thread is what happens when you ask the unclued for a simple direct answer.solar panel inverters Instead of giving one, or saying they dont know, they will question and insult anything they can to avoid dealing with the question, you included, especially you in fact. I’ve noticed But that’s only part of the problem. Another is that sci.engr.heat-vent-ac was created only after a large usenet community voting process approved the group for distribution with its present 10-year-old charter. I suppose that cannot be changed without another vote, even though Paul, Don, Bill and others would like to change it and hijack the group into something different. I think of them as Nixonian CREEPs :-

I think of you as a Liberal asshole. Sums it up nicely. …It is a mistake to think you can get answers to basic questions: expertise is about depth, when theres no expertise, theres no depth to the knowledge. Sci.engr.heat-vent-ac used to have lots of depth in the form of posters like Harriman, Banfleth, and other university scientists and PEs and people who’ve written chapters in ASHRAE tech handbooks. I like to think they are still out there and they may come back.

Between your off topic blather, johnny homemoaners looking for a freebee and the usual spam ads. Just what do you post that would attract a discussion that was interesting enough to join? My answer to the original q is I dont know how to calculate it. Its also not something of great significance to me personally. I know I did ask you before for a pointer or 2 on thermal calculations, but never got any, so I hold you entirely responsible for my ignorance Sorry, I don’t recall any unanswered questions. Ask again, if you like. I have a LOT of time to help with questions like those

Get a life.

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Sorry, I don’t recall any unanswered questions. Ask again, if you like. solar panel inverters I have a LOT of time to help with questions like those

ok, thank you. Now when I can remember what it was, I’ll ask Regards,

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Point is, what may seem off-topic to some isn’t always cut-and-dried.solar panel inverters  And yes, you have tried to ‘gatekeep’, so… “Those that live in glass houses….” daestrom

–   -john             wide-open at throttle dot info The keeper at the gate is blind so you’d better be prepared to pay     -Steve Earle

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Gee, Nicks “random number strings” always seem to work fine in the real world when I wisely apply his advise. Sounds like envy to me.

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This thread is what happens when you ask the unclued for a simple direct answer. Instead of giving one, or saying they dont know, they No, it’s when an asshole like Nick Pine starts in on another troll about his bullshit fantasies, spewing out his random number strings to ‘prove’ it. ‘Some days, it’s just not worth chewing through the restraints.’ HVAC/R program for Palm PDA’s Free demo now available online